R.I.P Arturo

[eastender]

It's been that kind of summer.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/mma/boxing/07/11/gatti.death.ap/index.html

R.I.P. Arturo

[joelcairo]

I always thought that Gatti would end up like Jerry Quarry in both life and death - he just took too much punishment. Sometimes courage can be a bad thing.

This is shocking though and very likely not due to the boxing beatings he absorbed - an assault, an accident, whatever it was.

[Joe.t]

Holy crap, this is truly a shocker, I am constantly being shocked this year with untimely deaths, I still can't believe this shocking terrible news.

[Morris Wanchuk]

RIP

always had to make it a point to watch his fights.

[julio]

Sounds like it was blunt force trauma to the head, foul play suspected, loved watching him fight, was he living in montreal now selling real estate?

[Doc Holliday]

He was having marital problems. Maybe the wife was fed up & gave him one last huge hit to the head, or had someone do it.

Anyways, i absolutely loved his fights. I even attended my one & only 'live' fight when he fought in Montreal. Stephane Ouellette/Dave Hilton were on the undercard. That was the night the Hells Angels kicked the shit out of rocker Eric Lapointe in one of the Bell Center bathrooms. I had just spoken with Lapointe minutes before this happened & he told me he had to hurry & head over to the bathroom to piss before the Gatti bout. I wondered why he hadn't returned, and discovered why the next day when reading Le Journal de Mtl. After he got his ass kicked, he decided to go home.

[protagoras]

Gatti was in a Brazilian condo because he wanted to spend a second honeymoon with his wife, Amanda Rodriguez. He rented the place for a month and beside his wife he was with his son (8 months old).

Last year, he spend some times in Brazil. In fact, he celebrated his 37th birthday in the house (in Bahia) of one of his close friend, the boxer Acelino Popó Freitas

http://www.popo.com.br/

There were marks in the back of his head suggesting that he was hit by a perforating object.

[protagoras]

Amanda Rodrigues, Arturo's wife, is the main suspect in that murder case. I'v learned that she was Brazilian and that Arturo was fluent in Brazilian/Portuguese. There's a famous nude model which name is also Amanda Rodrigues but they are not the same persons.

[bouboule]

hey guys...

had the pleasure of meeting arturo on a flight to new york about 3/4 months ago.....he was by himself with his baby....how he took care of that baby...was great to see....talked a little bit ..what a nice guy.....he actually told me he was investing in real estate at the time....but what a guy....
real shame....

[fellini]

A class act that will be sorely missed. A fine 'Montreal' son that did us proud by giving everything he had when he stepped into the ring. I wonder if the 'thunder' claps last night were in hommage of this warrior.

Arturo, riposa in pace. We will miss you.

[Doc Holliday]

Police detain wife of former Canadian boxer Arturo Gatti

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS, Tales Azzoni

SAO PAULO — Brazilian authorities detained the wife of former boxing champion Arturo Gatti as a suspect on Sunday following his death at a posh seaside tourist resort in Brazil.

Police said 23-year-old Amanda Rodrigues was taken into custody after contradictions in her interrogation. The Canadian boxer’s body was found early Saturday in a hotel room at the Porto de Galinhas resort in northeastern Brazil.

The former junior welterweight champion from Montreal was apparently strangled with the strap of a purse, which was found at the scene with blood stains, said Milena Saraiva, a spokeswoman for the Pernambuco state civil police. She told The Associated Press that Gatti also sustained a head injury.

The investigation was not complete, but Saraiva said authorities were preparing to present a formal accusation against Rodrigues, who denied being involved in her husband’s death.

Police said Rodrigues, a Brazilian, could not explain how she spent nearly 10 hours in the room without noticing that Gatti was already dead.

Police were investigating witness reports that the couple fought and Gatti was drunk when he returned to his room Friday night, Saraiva said, adding that police were told the couple was extremely jealous of each other and that he constantly complained of her clothing when she travelled to Brazil.

Acelino (Popo) Freitas, a four-time world champion Brazilian boxer, told Globo TV’s website on Saturday that he was a close friend of Gatti and his wife and that he “knew they were having some sort of problem and were about to separate.”

The couple’s one-year-old son, who was unhurt, was handed to Rodrigues’ sister, Saraiva said.

The 37-year-old Gatti, whose epic trilogy with Micky Ward branded him one of the most exciting fighters of his generation, retired in 2007 with a career record of 40-9 and 31 knockouts.

Known for his straightforward punching and granite-like chin, Gatti captured the junior welterweight title in 1995, when he defeated Tracy Harris Patterson in Atlantic City, New Jersey.

[master_bates]

One of the biggest hearts I've ever seen in the ring

RIP

[protagoras]

The latest news are that Arturo's wife is detained because she gave contradictory statements to the police. She's still the main suspect. Apparently they had an argument in a bar a couple of hours before Arturo's death. Jealousy was the motive of the dispute.

http://oglobo.globo.com/cidades/mat/2009/07/12/policia-prende-mulher-de-boxeador-canadense-morto-em-pernambuco-756783749.asp

[protagoras]

I found a video of the «arrestation» of Arturo's wife.

She was only 23 years old.On the video we can see whit what she allegedly strangled Arturo.

http://pe360graus.globo.com/videos/policia/investigacao/2009/07/11/VID,11288,8,298,VIDEOS,879-POLICIA-INVESTIGA-MORTE-CAMPEAO-BOXE-FLAT-IPOJUCA.aspx

[EagerBeaver]

How was Arturo's wife able to overpower him? I assume that this recently retired professional boxer would not willingly submit to a strangulation attempt by a 23 year old woman, unless he was sedated, drugged or otherwise restrained?

[eastender]

How was Arturo's wife able to overpower him? I assume that this recently retired professional boxer would not willingly submit to a strangulation attempt by a 23 year old woman, unless he was sedated, drugged or otherwise restrained?

From an earlier post - Doc, it seems that Arturo Gatti had been drinking.

[EagerBeaver]

From an earlier post - Doc, it seems that Arturo Gatti had been drinking.

Then he must have drunk himself unconscious. This whole affair is starting to sound like Steve McNair's death, at the hands of a jealous and vengeful girlfriend. Beware the jealous wife or girlfriend! Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!:eek:

Here is an ESPN interview of its senior boxing analyst Dan Rafael, who says that Gotti had more than a few drunken barroom brawls in his day:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4322072

[Doc Holliday]

Good story this morning on Gatti & his wife. There's also a picture of them:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/668322

[Joe.t]

I would imagine that there will be lots of traffic on St.Laurent on Monday as that
is the area of the funeral, I was thinking of going just to see who in the boxing world would show up, I would imagine a lot of famous celebrates would attend.

[Morris Wanchuk]

A visitation for Gatti is scheduled for Sunday at Maison Funeraire Magnus Poirier,
with a funeral on Monday at Notre Dame De La Defense.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07182009/news/worldnews/report__arturo_gatti_may_have_committed__180006.htm

[EagerBeaver]

I could not believe that you guys accepted in an unquestioning manner that Gatti was overpowered and strangled by his wife, even in a drunken state. Made no sense to me. This guy is a vet of drunken barroom brawls and he is not getting overpowered by his wife. Now it is being reported that Gatti killed himself.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/mma/boxing/07/18/gatti.boxing.ap/index.html

[Doc Holliday]

I was thinking of going just to see who in the boxing world would show up, I would imagine a lot of famous celebrates would attend.

True. A reliable source told me that Muhammad Ali & Mike Tyson are expected to be in attendance.

[Joe.t]

I could not believe that you guys accepted in an unquestioning manner that Gatti was overpowered and strangled by his wife, even in a drunken state. Made no sense to me. This guy is a vet of drunken barroom brawls and he is not getting overpowered by his wife. Now it is being reported that Gatti killed himself.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/mma/boxing/07/18/gatti.boxing.ap/index.html

I for one believe that she let someone into the apartment and had him killed because there was no forced entry according to police, I have also seen the strap that was used to strangle him and it was full of blood, I don't believe she had the strength to strangle him unless she had help.

[Doc Holliday]

SAO PAULO–An autopsy indicates former boxing champion Arturo Gatti of Montreal could have committed suicide, been accidentally killed or murdered, according to Jornal do Comercio newspaper Saturday.

Jornal do Comercio said it obtained a copy of the coroner's initial findings.

Police have said from the beginning they are certain Gatti's 23-year-old wife strangled the boxer with her purse strap as he drunkenly slept July 11, but the autopsy report raises some doubts.

Gatti was found dead a week ago in the apartment he was renting with wife Amanda Rodrigues in the Brazilian seaside resort of Porto de Galinhas in the northeastern state of Pernambuco.

A visitation for Gatti will be held Sunday in Montreal, with the funeral service scheduled for Monday morning at Notre Dame De La Defense.

In the state capital of Recife, Jornal do Comercio reported the autopsy findings said Gatti's body was "suspended and hanged, indicating he may have committed suicide."

The newspaper said the autopsy report also stated that "murder or accidental death" could not be ruled out. There was no explanation for "accidental death."

Paula Cysneiros, the spokeswoman for the medical examiners office that performed the autopsy, would not confirm the newspaper's report.

Police arrested Rodrigues on suspicion of murdering the former two-division champion. She maintains her innocence and is being held in a prison in Recife. She has not been charged – according to Brazilian law, police have until this Wednesday to hand over their findings to prosecutors, who will decide if charges are to be filed.

Rodrigues told investigators she awoke and found her husband's body about 9 a.m. on July 11. She then called police.

Investigators said she was the only suspect and they are certain she killed Gatti in the apartment where they and their 10-month-old son arrived for a second honeymoon. The boy was unhurt and was in the care of Rodrigues' family.

Investigators said there was no sign of forced entry and the electronic locks on the apartment indicated only Gatti and his wife had entered.

Police said Gatti had marks on his throat, indicating he was strangled.

Rodrigues' sister, Flavia, told the newspaper Folha de S. Paulo this week that there was "no way she could have strangled a man of that size."

Rodrigues' lawyer, Celio Avelino, told The Associated Press he agreed with Flavia's conclusion.

"She is fragile, young and skinny – how could she kill a boxing champion?" Avelino said. "When she awoke, she presumed he had committed suicide.

"But she had nothing to do with it."

Police also said there was a knife wound in the back of Gatti's head and displayed a small steak knife along with the bloodied, white purse strap – both found near his body.

Citing the results of the autopsy, the newspaper said the wound ``may have occurred when the body fell to the floor."

Police have also said they think the crime scene had been altered before they arrived – indicating Rodrigues could have tried to make it appear as if Gatti had committed suicide, police spokeswoman Milena Saraiva told the AP this week.

Saraiva said the death may have even been pre-meditated and Rodrigues may have encouraged Gatti to drink excessively so she would be able to overpower him later.

"He was very drunk and that made it easier for her," Saraiva theorized. "He was sleeping when she did this.

"She waited for the moment when he was drunk enough for her to do it."

Avelino has insisted his client is not guilty and has said he is certain the autopsy report would indicate Gatti's death was a suicide.

Rodrigues herself, in a handwritten letter she gave to the AP on Wednesday, said she didn't commit the crime.

"I'm innocent and I know that this will be proven in a few days," she wrote in the letter.

She ended the note by addressing the couple's infant son, writing: "Junior – soon mama will be at home!"

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/668462

[Joe.t]

True. A reliable source told me that Muhammad Ali & Mike Tyson are expected to be in attendance.

I hope that it's not the same "reliable" source that told you that Terrel Owens was at the last Devilish GT.

[EagerBeaver]

The same way I could not believe that you are entertaining the possibility that Gatti strangled himself to death.

What is being suggested is that Gatti hanged himself. It's also possible as suggested by JT that his wife let some goons in to the room to do the job she was not physically capable of doing herself. How Gatti would have hanged himself with a purse strap I am not sure. It also could have been an autoerotic asphyxia situation, which led to the deaths of David Carradine and Michael Hutchence (lead singer of INXS). They were masturbating while their bodies were suspended in mid air and something went wrong. It ends up looking like suicide until the coroner checks the cock for evidence of recent use.

[Morris Wanchuk]

True. A reliable source told me that Muhammad Ali & Mike Tyson are expected to be in attendance.

can Tyson get into Canada with his criminal record(rape,DWI's.cocaine possession?
maybe if he was entering Canada to box,the promoters would secure a waiver since he would be "on business",
but I would think they would turn him away at the border/airport.

I think some of Gatti's contemporaries will be at the funeral,probably Mickey Ward.

[Doc Holliday]

It also could have been an autoerotic asphyxia situation, which led to the deaths of David Carradine and Michael Hutchence (lead singer of INXS). They were masturbating while their bodies were suspended in mid air and something went wrong. It ends up looking like suicide until the coroner checks the cock for evidence of recent use.

I doubt it. For one, this is usually done when someone is alone in a home/appartment. It usually doesn't happen when the person is pissed drunk. Also, there was evidence of a blow to the head. This rules out voluntary auto-axphysiation. I also think that the auto-axphysiation defence will become more & more popular when murderers want to cover up their acts, ever since the deaths of Hutchence & Carradine has helped popularize this theory.

And now the hell could she spend 10 hours in the same appartment with him without realizing the guy was dead?? Murder, murder, murder!!

(However, i tend to believe the theory about he being set-up into going to Brazil to be with her....it's quite possible she had someone in the appartment with her, waiting for him....we'll see)

[Joe.t]

can Tyson get into Canada with his criminal record(rape,DWI's.cocaine possession?
maybe if he was entering Canada to box,the promoters would secure a waiver since he would be "on business",
but I would think they would turn him away at the border/airport.

I think some of Gatti's contemporaries will be at the funeral,probably Mickey Ward.

I think that the good Doctor was joking as I highly doubt that Ali with his ailing health would be there but I would not be surprised to see Tyson who said in the past that he admired boxing warriors which Gatti was.

[Doc Holliday]

I think that the good Doctor was joking as I highly doubt that Ali with his ailing health would be there but I would not be surprised to see Tyson who said in the past that he admired boxing warriors which Gatti was.

I wonder if Dave Hilton will be in attendance. He used to be married to Gatti's sister.

[Joe.t]

Does anybody know what time the funeral is at?.

[Techman]

I wonder if Dave Hilton will be in attendance. He used to be married to Gatti's sister.

If Hilton goes anywhere near that funeral they'll be probably holding his next week. :cool:

[Morris Wanchuk]

told ya Tyson cant cross the border, but he did send a letter.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2009-07-20-1108549829_x.htm

"We never knew he would be such a great fighter. I was always happy to see his success, to see him walk in the gym a boy and become a great man," said a letter from former heavyweight champion Mike Tyson. The letter was sent to Gatti's family and read by family friend Mario Costa during the funeral service.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Mourners+farewell+Arturo+Gatti/1807355/story.html

[Morris Wanchuk]

another guy who couldnt cross the border
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242009/gossip/pagesix/no_canada_for_zito_181052.htm

CHUCK Zito is ready to flatten Canada. The tough- talking Hell's Angel hopped in his Chrysler 300C and headed for Montreal to attend Monday's funeral of his pal, boxer Arturo Gatti, but never made it. "After driving six hours, I got to the border and they searched my car for 2½ hours, then denied me entry," Zito fumed to Page Six. The guards told the "OZ" actor his six-year prison stint for drug conspiracy in the '80s, as well as old assault and gun raps, made him unwelcome. "They said, 'Sign here and you are never allowed in Canada ever again.' I guess I'm not moving there," said Zito, who famously beat up Jean-Claude Van Damme for dissing him at Scores. He's helping organize a memorial for Gatti, who was found strangled, next Thursday at 7 p.m. at St. John the Baptist Church in Jersey City. "It's gonna be bigger than the one in Canada -- twice as big," Zito promised. "I invite all of Arturo's fans to come."

[Doc Holliday]

"After driving six hours, I got to the border and they searched my car for 2½ hours, then denied me entry," Zito fumed to Page Six.

Zito has no one to blame but himself for his predicament. Just because he's Chuck Zito doesn't mean that he should get preferrential treatment in attempting to enter Canada. There's no way a Canadian with a criminal record similar to his would be able to enter the States, including the fact of his well-known association to an organized criminal organization like the Hells Angels.

[Doc Holliday]

told ya Tyson cant cross the border, but he did send a letter.

When i mentionned that i had heard Ali & Tyson would be coming up to Canada for the funeral, i was kidding. I thought everyone had got the joke. I doubt Ali even knew who he was. :rolleyes:

p.s. Did Don King attend the funeral? If not, i wonder if his criminal past might not have also prevented him from entering Canada.

[eastender]

When i mentionned that i had heard Ali & Tyson would be coming up to Canada for the funeral, i was kidding. I thought everyone had got the joke. I doubt Ali even knew who he was. :rolleyes:

p.s. Did Don King attend the funeral? If not, i wonder if his criminal past might not have also prevented him from entering Canada.

Don King has been in Canada. Various waiver programs and procedures have been followed in his situation.

[Techman]

Brazillian police rule Gatti's death to be a suicide and his wife has been released.

Unbelievable.:eek:

[Doc Holliday]

Brazillian police rule Gatti's death to be a suicide and his wife has been released. Unbelievable.:eek:

Gatti's death ruled suicide

RIO DE JANEIRO -- A Brazilian police investigation has determined that the death of boxer Arturo Gatti was a suicide and a court has ordered the release of his wife, once suspected of killing him, officials said Thursday.

Lead investigator Paulo Alberes told The Associated Press authorities found that Gatti killed himself on July 11 in a seaside resort in northeastern Brazil.

When asked if police had determined the case was a suicide, Alberes said "yes." He offered no other details, but said he would hold a news conference later in the day.

A day after Gatti was found dead, police said that his 23-year-old Brazilian wife, Amanda Rodrigues, had strangled him with her purse strap as he drunkenly slept.

But police began to back off the accusation about a week later after a coroner's report said that Gatti may have killed himself as he was found hanged and suspended. Rodrigues' lawyer said at the time that proved his client's innocence because she could not have physically lifted Gatti.

A spokeswoman for the Pernambuco state court in the city of Recife confirmed that judge Ildete Verissimo de Lima ordered the release of Rodrigues.

The judge wrote in the ruling that police informed the court that "the detention of the suspect was no longer needed" as the investigation "excludes the possibility of murder."

"The victim ... committed suicide by hanging," Lima's ruling read, referring to the police investigation findings.

Rodrigues will walk out of jail Thursday afternoon, said her lawyer, Celio Avelino.

Gatti was found dead in the apartment he was renting with Rodrigues in the resort town of Porto de Galinhas.

The pair, who had a tumultuous marriage, had arrived there a few days before Gatti's death for a second honeymoon. The couple brought their 10-month-old son, who was unhurt and is in the care of Rodrigues' family in Brazil.

The 37-year-old Gatti, who captured two world titles in his 16-year pro career, retired in 2007 with a record of 40-9.

Gatti's family and friends in his adopted hometown of Montreal have denied the accusation the boxer could have killed himself.

"Nobody believes whatsoever that there's even a 1 percent chance of a suicide. He lived life to the fullest," Ivano Scarpa, a close Gatti family friend, said at the boxer's July 20 funeral service in Canada.

But Rodrigues, in a July 15 letter that she handed over to the AP from prison, said: "I'm innocent and I know that this will be proven in a few days."

[Morris Wanchuk]

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.montrealgazette.com/news/maybe+thought+would+leave/1845533/1846020.bin?size=620x400

[eastender]

A high school classmate / teammate had a similar momemt of lost dreams when his wife asked him for a divorce. Got drunk and...........

Have to realize how fragile people and life may be.

[Morris Wanchuk]

not sure if Mickey Rourke would have any trouble crossing the border in a moments notice,
if he had wanted to attend the funeral.
he did have a 2007 DUI arrest in Florida but it was dismissed after he pleaded
guilty to reckless driving.
in '94,he was arrested for beating up Carrie Otis but those charges were also dropped.
in his youth,im sure he has some kind of rap sheet.
its rumored, he was a male prostitute in miami.

here is the memorial service that Chuck Zito was talking about.
with a couple of video interviews

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/mourners_in_arturo_gattis_memo.html

[Doc Holliday]

Chuvalo, who ought to know, doesn't believe ruling

By STEVE SIMMONS

George Chuvalo doesn't believe the police reports. Neither of them.

He won't accept, can't fathom that his old friend, Alexis Arguello, committed suicide. And he doesn't believe for a minute that one of his favourite fighters, Arturo Gatti, did the same.

This has been a tragic month for the boxing business. Arguello, a national hero and mayor of Managua, Nicaragua, supposedly shot himself in the chest in the first days of July. Gatti's death, first considered a murder, then a suicide, then a murder, was deemed yesterday by Brazilian police as a suicide. His wife, the prime suspect in the case, has been released from custody.

And after their deaths, came the shooting of former world champion Vernon Forrest and the untimely death of Canadian silver medal winner Mark Leduc.

Chuvalo, who has known no shortage of tragedy in his life, just delivered a eulogy at his favourite cousin's funeral, and wonders aloud why it is so convenient to lump boxing and suicide, so convenient for celebrity deaths to be speculated about rather than properly put to rest.

The apparent suicide victims of boxing had more than ties to Canada. Leaving the poverty of his youth behind, Arguello hitchhiked to Ontario around the age of 14, wound up living in Stouffville, working two jobs, training as a boxer, before returning home two years later for his very first professional fight, a bout in which he was knocked out in the first round.

Some 37 fights later, he left Nicaragua again for North America, eventually winning 82 of his 90 pro fights, winning three legitimate world titles, becoming a legend at home and around the world.

"I read he shot himself in the chest," said Chuvalo. "Who shoots himself in the chest? I've never heard of a guy shooting himself in the chest.

"A guy's going to kill himself, he puts the gun to his head or in his mouth. You don't shoot yourself in the chest. One bullet, no note of any kind. I believe somebody killed Arguello. And for whatever reason, the police (in Nicaragua) don't want to see it that way."

Almost every summer, Chuvalo travels to Canastota, N.Y., for the Boxing Hall of Fame inductions and almost every summer he would renew his acquaintances with Arguello. And to be honest, "I was a little jealous of him.

"He was a bloody movie star-looking guy, and he handled himself like a star, a real handsome guy, well built, you know the type. We'd be at these things together, shaking hands, signing autographs, posing for photos, and I'd be there sweating away, with my shirt open, looking like me, and he'd be there with his shirt and tie done up, cool as a cucumber, not swearing a drop."

Now they may have suicide as another similarity. Chuvalo lost a son and his first wife to suicide. He has lived the life of Canadian celebrity but not without enormous personal cost.

Maybe because he knows his own pain, he isn't readily willing to accept that others so young, so talented, took their own lives.

"How could that be a suicide with Gatti?" he asks of the Montreal native.

"Didn't he have a stab of some kind in the back of his head? Didn't he have strangulation marks around his neck? You think he did that to himself?

"How's that make sense?

"This reminds me of that Woodbridge couple murdered in Mexico a couple of years ago when the police tried to blame everybody else. Rather than find out who did it, they'd rather it go away.

"You think Arturo Gatti, you think a guy who never ran away from anything in his life, why would he want to run away now?"

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnists/steve_simmons/2009/07/31/10321046-sun.html

[EagerBeaver]

I was reading that Mark Leduc fell asleep in a sauna and died of heat stroke, based on an autopsy that showed damage to his internal organs. I have never heard of anyone dying after falling asleep in a sauna. I wonder how long it takes, from when you fall asleep, to when you die, at normal sauna temperature. I have gone into the sauna at the Omni a few times by myself and if I had fallen asleep, I would have eventually been found dead.

http://www.canada.com/news/national/Olympic+boxer+Mark+Leduc+dies/1825929/story.html

[eastender]

I was reading that Mark Leduc fell asleep in a sauna and died of heat stroke, based on an autopsy that showed damage to his internal organs. I have never heard of anyone dying after falling asleep in a sauna. I wonder how long it takes, from when you fall asleep, to when you die, at normal sauna temperature. I have gone into the sauna at the Omni a few times by myself and if I had fallen asleep, I would have eventually been found dead.

http://www.canada.com/news/national/Olympic+boxer+Mark+Leduc+dies/1825929/story.html

EB,

You raise a valid question that does not have a definite answer.

Before going further a distinction has to be made between a person falling asleep and passing-out in the sauna. If the person is alone in the sauna then it is never 100% clear whether they fell asleep or passed-out. During a football practise a player collapsing leaves no doubt.

Basically levels of dehydration have to be balanced against existing or unknown medical conditions. the persons age, overall physical condition, other contributing factors - alcohol, recreational drugs, etc. Every year you have young athletes dying during summer practice sessions under comparable circumstances, NFL players, especially linemen, in training camp have to be closely monitored.

Depending on the extent of the autopsy the actual causes may never be specified BUT usually a major contributing factor is a heart condition that was previously unknown. This is especially true for young athletes - late teens where the heart is not fully mature.

If you are using a sauna make sure there is some level of supervision or other people are present.

[EagerBeaver]

Eastender,

Note that the autopsy on Leduc's corpse found that he died of heatstroke which damaged his internal organs (presumably multiple organ failure as killed Korey Stringer of the Vikings when he died of heatstroke). There was no evidence that his death was caused by a cardiac event according to this report. Although it is possible that a cardiac event may have precipitated the loss of consciousness, usually the coroner will note any evidence of coronary disease in his report. I say this from the experience of having taken depositions of coroners in motor vehicle accident cases involving the issue of whether a fatality was caused by traumatic injuries sustained in the accident, or an event which precipitated loss of consciousness based on witnesses who reported the driver slumped over the wheel prior to the MVA. In one case we had a solid conclusion that the driver had a fatal cardiac arrest that caused his unconciousness and the ensuing accident. In such a situation, there is no negligence because the law provides a defense where there is a "sudden and unanticipated' medical emergency. In another case the 77 year old man who was killed was observed driving a vehicle that appeared "driverless" but no witnesses could say whether he was unconscious and slumped over the wheel. The coroner concluded, on questioning in a deposition, that while the man may have been unconscious due to a coronary event, his death was due to traumatic injuries of impact when his chest was impaled by the steering wheel, crushing his ribs and causing a significant blood loss into the peritoneal cavity. Thus, because the man's heart was still beating steadily on impact, his Estate was required to pay (through his motor vehicle insurance) the damages sustained by the lady whose car he hit.

In Leduc's case, we do not know if he fell asleep or had a cardiac event that rendered him unconscious but it's likely the coroner would have noted the latter in his report. We can speculate that if no such event occurred, Leduc probably had a vigorous workout, went into the sauna alone and then conked out from fatigue. I echo your advice to never go into a sauna alone, something I have done regularly at the Omni and will not do again.

[eastender]

In Leduc's case, we do not know if he fell asleep or had a cardiac event that rendered him unconscious but it's likely the coroner would have noted the latter in his report. We can speculate that if no such event occurred, Leduc probably had a vigorous workout, went into the sauna alone and then conked out from fatigue. I echo your advice to never go into a sauna alone, something I have done regularly at the Omni and will not do again.

EB,

As long as the readers become aware of the many contributing factors and govern themselves accordingly then taking a sauna will be a safer experience.

[EagerBeaver]

I just heard a report on ESPN that gave more details on the Gatti suicide. It is reported that Gatti hung himself from a wooden staircase railing beam, and that at some point while hanging the body fell to the floor, presumably then causing the head injury. Death was by strangulation and asphyxiation from hanging.

Gatti's wife told Brazilian police that she and Gatti fought earlier in the evening, and that the fight had gotten physical. She then told Gatti she was going to leave him. Gatti then hanged himself in anguish.

Bottom line, 4 famous boxers dead in a month-

Alexis Arguello - Suicide
Arturo Gatti - Suicide
Vernon Forrest - Homicide
Mark Leduc - Accidental Death By Heatstroke in Sauna

[Morris Wanchuk]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8179389.stm

The body of former world boxing champion Arturo Gatti has been exhumed at his family's request.
A new autopsy will now be carried out on Mr Gatti's body at the Quebec coroner's office.

[EagerBeaver]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4368620

[Morris Wanchuk]

more Mickey Rourke and Micky Ward reaction
http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-friends-react-to-suicide-ruling,0,7067985.story

ps
are they selling Gatti tshirts in Montreal? easy to find?

I am coming up next week for the AC/DC concert and wonder if Brian Johnson will mention Gatti when they do the song Thunderstruck.

[Doc Holliday]

I am coming up next week for the AC/DC concert and wonder if Brian Johnson will mention Gatti when they do the song Thunderstruck.

Doubt it. If the concert were in New Jersey, maybe. Gatti spent the most part of his career in the US. Montreal boxing fans didn't really give a damn about him until he suddenly began to make it big in the States in the late-90's/early 2000's, He spent the most part of his time living in NJ until his retirement. I saw him box once in Mtl (his 1st big fight in the city) a few years ago, on the same card as the third fight between Dave Hilton & Stephane Ouellette. Most people at the fight were more interested in the Hilton/Ouellette fight (as i did also) and Gatti's fight on the main card was supposed to be a walk-in-the-park for him. Most people in attendance thought he had lost that fight, even though he managed to be declared the winner. This is debatable, but i doubt the Bell Center would have been filled up if the Hilton/Ouellette fight wasn't on the card. I also remember seeing Leonard Dorin & Fathi Moussaoui that night. I loved seeing Moussaoui fighting. It's unfortunate he had to retired prematurely due to an eye injury. He could have been a great one.

[protagoras]

Since the beginning I have doubts about the alleged explanation of Gatti's death. It seems unlikely that he committed suicide or that Amanada strangled him. Both explanations are absurd and facts hinder that explanation. Especially if we take into consideration the fact that there was a wound in the back of his head.

This morning, reading a Brazilian newspaper, I found an article on that case (which is still unsolved for me). Here's an excerpt of that article with my translation

De acordo com o laudo da polícia, antes de cometer o suicídio, Arturo Gatti se envolveu numa briga com a mulher, Amanda Carine, confusão testemunhada por cerca de 60 pessoas. “Eles brigaram na rua. Tanto é que ele a espancou violentamente e arrastou ela por um bom pedaço da rodovia puxando pelos cabelos”, disse o delegado Paulo Alberes.

Arturo teria agredido também um vigia, que chegou a perder os sentidos, ao tentar ajudar a mulher. Algumas pessoas que viram a cena ficaram revoltadas e chegaram a agredi-lo jogando pedras e até uma bicicleta, foi quando ele ficou ferido na cabeça.

TRANSLATION

According to the police statement, before committing suicide, Arturo Gatti had a fight with his wife, Amanda Carine, a disturbance that was witnessed by approximately 60 people. «They fought in the street. The fact is that he spanked her and dragged her on a good distance on the road pulling her by her hair», said the police chief Paulo Alberes.

Arturo had also attacked a guard, which eventually passed out, in tempting to help the woman. Several people who witnessed the scene were upset and started to attack him by hurling stones, and even a bicycle, at him. It is at this moment that his head was hurt. (My emphasis)


It's the first time that I see that (pseudo)explanation. I don't know if it makes sense. One thing is sure, it could explain why there was a wound in the back of his head.

[Techman]

That's really interesting. Being hit in the head could have led to him losing consciousness at their room making it easier for his wife or an accomplice to kill him. Apparently, the second autopsy being performed here has led to discovery of bruises that were not mentioned in the Brazilian report according to news reports this morning. There is also the matter of Arturo changing his will three weeks ago along with a recent insurance policy with the wife as beneficiary.

If they had just had a huge fight, I could maybe have accepted a murder-suicide scenario happening. But not what is being claimed. Something really smells here.

[Joe.t]

That's really interesting. Being hit in the head could have led to him losing consciousness at their room making it easier for his wife or an accomplice to kill him. Apparently, the second autopsy being performed here has led to discovery of bruises that were not mentioned in the Brazilian report according to news reports this morning. There is also the matter of Arturo changing his will three weeks ago along with a recent insurance policy with the wife as beneficiary.

If they had just had a huge fight, I could maybe have accepted a murder-suicide scenario happening. But not what is being claimed. Something really smells here.

Quote-

"Earlier this week, friends close to the Gatti family brought a computer to the Montreal police, claiming it had evidence of interest to his death. Montreal police have not searched the contents of the computer, and are making arrangements to have it sent to Brazilian authorities, Montreal police Constable Ian Lacoursiere said."

Something smells fishy to me also.

[Techman]

Quote-

"Earlier this week, friends close to the Gatti family brought a computer to the Montreal police, claiming it had evidence of interest to his death. Montreal police have not searched the contents of the computer, and are making arrangements to have it sent to Brazilian authorities, Montreal police Constable Ian Lacoursiere said."

Something smells fishy to me also.


Now that seems like a really intelligent move. Police here don't check the computer at all and send it off to the incredibly honest Brazilian authorities. Any bets they find nothing at all?

I hope that someone made a copy of the hard drive before turning it over because there won't be anything on it when they get it back. If it comes back at all that is.

Are people really this stupid? :confused:

[EagerBeaver]

Techman,

Let's not forget that Gatti's death happened in Brazil, not Montreal. The Brazilian cops may be the Keystone cops or whatever else you want to call them, but they have jurisdiction over the investigation of the crime, and official evidence in a criminal investigation should not be touched except by the LE which has jurisdiction over the investigation. You may recall a few years ago when those two American boys fell to their deaths in the quarry in Laval, the families wanted the FBI to come in and investigate because they had no confidence in the competence of the Laval cops. Well they had no choice because it was the Laval cops' crime to investigate. And the Montreal Police Service is going to have to defer to the investigation by the local cops in Brazil. It's their crime investigation to either botch or solve.

The only exceptions are when the local cops ask for help. I have no knowledge of the Brazilian cops having asked the Montreal police, you or Eastender for help in their investigation. They very well may need your help, but unless they ask for it, nobody touches a computer that may be evidence in a possible commission of a crime.

By the ways, I know an attorney who went to jail for advising a client to erase contents of a computer that was evidence in a criminal investigation. The client was the company that owned the computer; one of its employees downloaded child porn onto it. Attorney advised client to erase the downloads, computer was seized by LE, and when the forensics came back the attorney was charged with destruction of evidence and did time in jail. And he is a damn fucking good criminal attorney.

[metoo4]

Techman, you're right, it sucks!

But legally, there's nothing else they can do since there's no police inquiry happening in Québec. If they would search the laptop, nothing they could find would be admissible because, since there's no inquiry (enquête) in Québec, they can't get a warrant to search the laptop.

On top of that, they could be accused by the Brazilian authorities of tampering with evidences.

If the Brazilians find something on that laptop that warrant the assistance of the QPP or that justify an inquiry here, then the laptop could be inspected by the QPP.

That sucks in this situation but that's the law.

[Techman]

EB, I have no faith in the honesty of the Brazilian police force. I believe that they are corrupt as hell and no matter what is sent to them, they will not overturn their decision. This is the reason I hope that the originator of this system had the forethought to clone the hard drive before handing it over to the authorities. The system will probably end up 'disappeared'. :rolleyes:

And the Montreal Police have no need of a warrant if the owner of the laptop gives them permission to search it. And it has not been declared official evidence in any investigation as yet.

As far as your attorney is concerned, he may be a good lawyer but he should increase his computer knowledge when it comes to destroying computer files. A simple delete won't do it. He got what he deserved.

[EagerBeaver]

And the Montreal Police have no need of a warrant if the owner of the laptop gives them permission to search it. And it has not been declared official evidence in any investigation as yet.

That's true, but the owner of the computer is dead, and it is unlikely that his will has even been sent to Probate at this time. So it is unlikely anyone can legally do anything other than turn it over to the Brazilian cops. Again, the Montreal cops are not going to do a search on evidence, with or without the owner's permission, if someone else has jurisdiction to investigate the crime in which the computer is evidence.

It does not necessarily have to be declared official evidence to be off limits. If the Montreal cops called the Brazilian cops and told them a computer had been turned over to them, all the Brazilian cops have to do is say it is possible evidence in our investigation, and don't touch it. If they ask the Montreal police to do a search, then it would be a different story.

[Doc Holliday]

Gatti couple's night out at a restaurant starts well, but ends with a violent argument

The night before Montreal boxer Arturo Gatti died, on July 10, he beat his wife, Amanda Rodrigues, in the middle of the street, more violently than she would first admit.

That last night, the final night of Gatti's life, started well. But early on, following an argument with Rodrigues, everything went south.

After settling into their condo following a trek through the village, Gatti and Rodrigues headed out to a pedestrian mall, where many of the Brazilian city of Porto de Galinhas' restaurants and boutiques are located, and which also leads to the beach. At the end of the road, the couple stopped at around 9 p.m. at a restaurant with a patio that overlooked the beach. They ate pizza and ordered two bottles of wine.

Between midnight and 1 a.m., Gatti, Rodrigues and their young son (who was sleeping in a stroller) left the restaurant and walked up the street to where the taxi had dropped them off.

Along the way, Gatti asked his wife to stop at another small restaurant to grab a beer. Because the restaurant was closing, the server set them up at a table outside, near the street.

There, things began to disintegrate. At one point, a furious Gatti smashed a drink on the ground.

"You'll never change," Rodrigues told her husband.

Gatti then told his wife he wanted to go to the Santeria, the village's disco bar. Rodrigues refused and an argument ensued in the middle of the street.

Several witnesses heard the couple but didn't understand them because they were yelling in English.

"I told him that we should return to the hotel because it was late and we had the baby," explained Rodrigues, who also refused to allow her husband to head to the bar alone.

Witnesses said they saw Gatti push his wife and that he was yelling at her in "English or in Italian."

-

CONTRADICTIONS

From the start, Rodrigues has maintained that her husband simply "pushed" her and that she fell to the ground. But at least one person who witnessed the fight said that Gatti had violently shoved and beaten her.

"I saw him beat her, push her," said George Soares de Silva, a porter at inn Poussada Farol de Porto. "She fell and he pulled her by the hair.

"I simply asked him what had happened and he hit me once or twice, right in the face."

After having been questioned several times on the subject, Rodrigues finally admitted, in tears, that she had minimized the violence to protect Gatti's reputation.

"I didn't tell anyone that he had beaten me," she said.

-

According to police, who said that they have questioned and obtained statements from 60 witnesses (including several tourists), the fight between Gatti and the porter attracted many onlookers who wanted to confront the former boxing champion.

According to Ipojuca police chief Paulo Alberes, who led the investigation, the crowd, noticing Gatti was alone and without his baby, began to push him and throw rocks at him. When the taxi returned, Gatti jumped in and headed back to the condo. When he got there, he couldn't find his wife.

Employees of the hotel who saw him come in described him as angry.

"He smelled of alcohol but he wasn't drunk to the point of staggering," said Luciano, who saw Gatti return to the complex with his baby in his arms.

Gatti then decided to head back to Porto de Galinhas, though he had to take another taxi because the driver who had driven him to the hotel refused to let him back in.

-

'The INCREDIBLE HULK'

When he got back to Porto de Galinhas, Gatti left the baby in the taxi and quickly entered the Santeria. There, the police report stated, witnesses described him as "The Incredible Hulk," pushing patrons and chairs while searching for his wife. He also got into arguments with Brazilians at the bar.

Realizing that his wife wasn't there, Gatti got back into the cab with his crying baby, according to the taxi driver, and returned to the hotel.

When he arrived back at the hotel, Rodrigues was there and was waiting when the taxi dropped him off. She asked Gatti to pay the driver.

Gatti, who was still holding his crying baby, paid the driver and the visibly angry couple returned inside the hotel at between 2 and 2:30 a.m. Once inside, according to Rodrigues, Gatti realized she was injured and asked: "I did that?" When she responded that he had, in fact, hurt her, he asked her if it was over between them. She said yes before taking the baby and heading into the main bedroom.

"I locked the door," said Rodrigues. "That was the last time I talked to him."

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/othersports/2009/09/13/10867596-sun.html

[Doc Holliday]

Arturo Gatti's last few hours

When he was found dead, Arturo Gatti had numerous injuries to his body. The autopsy report from the Institut Medico-Legal of Pernamubuco State said that the body showed signs of many blunt injuries, including one to the back of the head.

According to the autopsy, the injuries could have occurred before death or just after, when his body fell to the floor. Police investigators maintain that these injuries occurred before his death, during a fight Gatti got into at the Porto Galinhas centre. Witnesses said they saw passerbys throw rocks at Gatti during the altercation and blood was found on the head rest of the taxi that brought him back to the hotel. DNA tests confirmed the blood belonged to the former boxing champ.

However, according to the boxer's former manager Pat Lynch, Quebec coroners who performed a second autopsy on Gatti found other injuries not discovered during the autopsy in Brazil. According to him, Gatti was "severely beaten," then murdered.

BLOOD

When she was questioned by police, Gatti's wife Amanda Rodrigues said she went to check on their baby at around 6 a.m. She said her husband was on the floor, but she assumed he had fallen asleep.

"I was half asleep and mad at him," she said, adding she didn't see any blood, though pictures taken by investigators showed blood on the floor.

Police Chief Paulo Alberes said the blood didn't begin running from the wound on Gatti's head until after 9 a.m. "probably when Amanda went back down and she figured out that he was dead by shaking him."

DRUNK OR DRUGGED

According to witnesses, Gatti drank the most of the two bottles of wine that he had ordered at the restaurant where he was eating pizza. He then drank a beer at another restaurant before getting into a fight with his wife.

When he arrived at the hotel, Gatti smelled of alcohol but wasn't drunk to the point of staggering, said employees.

Investigators suspect that he drank seven other cans of Skol beer when he got to the hotel, after his wife went to bed with the baby. Empty cans were found in the kitchen. However, toxicology results have not yet been made public.

NOISE

Arturo's brother, Fabrizio, said during an interview that he wondered how Rodrigues didn't hear the noise of Gatti's body falling, as she said she didn't hear anything. It is possible nearby air conditioners could have muffled the noise.

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/othersports/2009/09/13/10867601-sun.html

[Doc Holliday]

SALVADOR DE BAHIA (BRAZIL) - Amanda Rodrigues is getting ready to celebrate the first birthday of her son, Arturo Junior, on Wednesday with only a few friends and family members in southern Brazil. But her husband, Arturo Gatti, who loved his son more than anything in the world, won't be there.

Nearly two months following the death of the former boxing champion, the life of his widow hasn't returned to any sort of normalcy.

Accused by her in-laws of having killed her husband -- despite the findings of investigators in Brazil that Gatti killed himself -- the young Rodrigues is continuing a fight to clear her name.

Though authorities ruled the death a suicide, the investigation remains open and a second autopsy is being conducted on Gatti's body in Quebec.

Rodrigues, in an exclusive interview with the Journal de Montreal, said she is slowly beginning to escape from the "whirlwind of events and emotions."

"It's like I didn't even have time to think," she said. "But now, it's hitting me."

Rodrigues was accompanied by her son and her best friend's mother when the Journal met with her at a Salvador de Bahia hotel 10 days ago.

"Junior is the reason I get up in the morning," she said of her baby, who bears a striking resemblance to his father.

Throughout the interview, Junior walked tentatively between his toys, the television and his mother.

Rodrigues speaks quickly in English with a New York tinge and a heavy Brazilian accent.

She confidently answers most questions about her husband's death, her subsequent imprisonment and the relentless accusations from Gatti's family and friends.

That stoicism evaporates, however, when the conversation turns to the subject of her son. It is then that she breaks into sobs while continuing to talk.

"It's way too many things and pressure for a young woman her age," said Rebeca Von Jakitsch, an older cousin that Rodrigues calls "tia" (aunt). "We can't ask any more or expect anything more from her because she is so young. She is only 23. Do you realize what she has endured for two months?"

Like all of Rodrigues' friends and family in Brazil, Von Jakitsch wouldn't even entertain the thought that her younger cousin murdered her husband.

"I didn't even think about it for a second," she said. "I lost my husband, too. I can tell you that it's terrible.

But imagine that Amanda couldn't even (say goodbye) to Arturo at the funerals. That's a moment that belongs to her, and to her son."

Von Jakitsch spent time with Rodrigues and Gatti during the early stages of their marriage three years ago.

"When I saw them together, she was living things that a 20-year-old girl lives," she said. "She was in love. And he as well."

She added that she finds the story that Rodrigues was a stripper when she and Gatti met is particularly ridiculous.

"This stripper story, think about it for an instant," she said. "Even if it was true, and I'm not saying it is, how would that change what has happened? What is the connection between that and Arturo's suicide?"

Rodrigues has always denied having worked as a stripper. She maintains that she met Gatti while they were walking their dogs in a New Jersey park.

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/othersports/2009/09/13/10867606-sun.html